.
Feedback

Is Phillies' Pitching Worth the Price?

Philadelphia Phillies contract to ace Cole Hamels puts a lot of payroll in pitchers.

To the delight of most Philadelphia Phillies fans, Cole Hamels will be wearing pinstripes for a number of years to come.

With the signing of Hamels to a six-year, $144 million deal with a vesting option for a seventh year, the Phillies are telling fans that they haven't thrown in the towel, even if this season might be lost.

Hamels' contract is the richest in team history. (Yes, it tops Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, Ryan Howard, Roy Halladay, Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley.)

But is the price for pitching worth it? 

Vote in our poll and tell us what you think in the comments section below.

With Hamels locked up, the Phillies have now invested $68 million in three starting pitchers for 2013.

That's a lot of green for Hamels, Halladay and Cliff Lee. Throw in what the team is paying closer Jonathan Papelbon and it doesn't seem like there's much room to pay for anything else.

In reality, the Phillies have the Top Three starting pitchers in baseball.

Throw in Vance Worley and the rotation is strong for next year, no matter who the No. 5 starter is. (Actually, could that be phenom Tyler Cloyd, who is pitching lights out for the Iron Pigs this year?)

But, unless Hamels keeps hitting home runs, it's hard to win games when your team isn't scoring any runs. We've found that out for the first half of this year as the Phils were barely able to put a run or two on the board.

You would also think that Hamels is now truly the ace on the staff.

Yes, Halladay has a no hitter, perfect game and Cy Young on his resume since becoming a Phil.

But Hamels does have MVP awards for a championship series and World Series.

So maybe Hamels is really our modern-day Steve Carlton. He's definitely homegrown talent and losing him to free agency could have meant a death march for the future of the franchise.

So kudos to General Manager Ruben Amaro for wrapping up Hamels right before the trading deadline. Now we'll see how the rest of the hand plays out.

Amaro has gone on the record to state that he wants the Phillies to remain competitive over the next three years.

Keeping Hamels on staff for six years might give enough time for some of the Baby Phils arms in the Minor Leagues to be ready for the Majors by that time.

This team, though, needs a stronger lineup.

It's nice to know there's a nucleus of Howard, Utley, Rollins and Carlos Ruiz.

Even with those guys, there are questions: Can Howard and Utley fully recover from injury, is Rollins past his prime, and is Chooch a one-hit wonder?

The rest of the lineup looks shaky for the next few years.

Who will be at third base next year? What about left field? Does Hunter Pence remain in right field or is he traded? Who will be the new centerfielder?

At least one issue -- a big issue -- is resolved.

Cole Hamels stays. And that should give every Philadelphia Phillies fan enough hope that the franchise will get back on track.

Will Simcox July 28, 2012 at 10:06 am
Good signing. No doubt
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr. July 28, 2012 at 10:21 am
After last night's loss to the Atlanta Braves, I am having second thoughts (Hamels on the mound).
Mischa Arnosky (Editor) July 28, 2012 at 10:42 am
Had Hamels gotten the win yesterday, but lost a game down the road, everyone would be calling Ruben a genius this morning. Good signing.
Patriot2 July 28, 2012 at 11:33 am
A 6 year contract for a pitcher is a very high risk investment. It is highly likely that Hamels arm will go long before the end of this contract. I would have preferred the Phillies to go with some younger pitching talent behind Lee and Halladay and Worley. You have to put Hunter Pence in the mix with the other guys as he is a 30 home run/100RBI guy and a keeper in my opinon. Utley should be traded to an AL team as a DH in return for a power hitting 3rd Baseman.
Dino Ciliberti (Editor) July 28, 2012 at 12:38 pm
You can't trade Utley. If he's healthy, there are none better. He's the best second baseman in franchise history.
Larry Girton July 28, 2012 at 01:00 pm
Pitching is fine, what they need is a new outfield that can hit!!Start with right field and move to center and then left!!
B franks July 28, 2012 at 02:09 pm
Cole hamels has crazy foolish too much payroll look dollars big not people .He will lose no good pitchers tired his arm. Phillies manger has stuip why keep him.All people
Said plays will lose other year.
frank ciliberti July 28, 2012 at 03:13 pm
These players make too much money. They should win every game for that kind of money or get real job.
D. Wag July 29, 2012 at 12:34 am
And you wonder why a stinkin hot dog costs $7.00 at the ballpark!! !!
Mike Shortall July 29, 2012 at 02:08 am
No individual's work is worth this much. But if you're going to pay any MLB pitcher this much, Hamels is the guy you want to pay it to at this point of his career. This signing wasn't so much for this year but for the franchise's future. One commenter here suggests a "younger pitcher" behind Halladay, Lee and Worley (???); but who would THAT be?!?
As this season looks more and more like one of those valleys we often hear about, the fact is having three huge contract pitchers is a luxury. Look for Lee to be traded before next season, assume the Phils don't turn into sellers after the weekend and deal him. In the end, Hamels is the kind of pitcher you can build SEVERAL rotations around for at least 6 seasons - assuming health, which is the REAL risk with long-term contracts for pitchers - into the franchise's future. You keep Hamels as the core of those future rotations.
Patriot2 July 29, 2012 at 03:27 pm
The young pitchers behind Halladay, Lee and Worley would be either someone from a trade or Cloid or Pettibone from the Iron Pigs. Trading Lee is another option but I don't think putting this much money into our 3 starters is not necessary. Better to invest in a power hitting young 3rd baseman that is in the lineup every day. I also think Pence is a keeper in right field to build around like Hamels. He will be a 30 home run per year guy to supplement Howard. Utley has been great but his days are numbered in the field and needs to become a DH---great trade bait.
Mike Shortall July 29, 2012 at 04:59 pm
I would disagree about Utley. He's been showing that he's much further back from where he was than being relegated to DH. He's even stealing bases, which says a lot about the health of his knees. I would agree on Pence, but he's really got to fix that huge hole in his swing.
I don't know how you can tout Iron Pig pitchers, who would be shots in the dark at the major league level over Hamels, who is a PROVEN stud on the mound. A power-hitting third baseman is a definite need though. Moving Lee or even Worley for one - next year - would be a welcome addition.
leo lowe July 30, 2012 at 03:30 am
Why would you have to assure us that his contract is more than Mike Schmidt's or Steve Carlton's? I don't think anybody was wondering if Hamels was paid more or less than someone who played 30 years ago.
Dino Ciliberti (Editor) July 30, 2012 at 02:23 pm
I was doing so to show his importance now in team history in terms of paying a price. But would you put Hamels on an all-time Phillies roster??
GJ July 30, 2012 at 02:35 pm
Huh???
GJ July 30, 2012 at 02:36 pm
Just wondering -- what profession has only perfection among the highest paid?
. July 30, 2012 at 03:20 pm
I was all for resigning Hamels but not at that money. This contract basically crippled the teams chances to get better in other areas for the next couple of years. What good is starting pitching when you have no 3rd baseman, no real lead off hitter, no bullpen besides an over paid closer, a disabled 2nd baseman, and one of the weaker outfields in baseball? Oh did I mention no prospects in the minors either because they were all traded away for short term help? The Phillies have been a great team over the past 5-6 years and deserve a pass for this horrible season but if they don't make some major moves at the deadline (mainly to dump salary) and during the off season to get better and younger, I think a lot of people are going to bail on this team.
leo lowe July 30, 2012 at 05:16 pm
Didn't work. No way you can compare salaries from 20 years ago, let alone 30.
Dino Ciliberti (Editor) July 30, 2012 at 07:21 pm
Oh Richard, I'm not sure of that. Let's give Amaro some credit for what he has done in past trading deadlines. He can move Pence, Victorino and Blanton and shave payroll and also maybe get younger at third and the outfield.
Look for Michael Bourn or BJ Upton to patrol center next year.
. July 30, 2012 at 07:56 pm
Dino, all Amaro has done is open the check book for high priced players. ANYONE could sign Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, etc... if they had that payroll. What good GMs do is find young cheap players that can help the team for years before getting big money deals that break the bank and put you in a luxury tax situation. In fact as much as people hated Ed Wade, he was the one that found Howard, Utley, Rollins, and Hamels. Pat G. brought in bargin guys like Werth and Victorino. What players has Amaro brought in besides the no brainers who he overpaid to get? Ty Wiggington? Chad Qualls?
As for your suggested free agents....Michael Bourn will be one of the most sought after OFs in free agency. It will take at least 15 million (most likely more) over 4-5 years to get him here (if he even wants to come considering we dumped him in a trade years ago). Not sure how BJ Upton (who is hitting .240 something) is an upgrade over either Pence or Victorino either. Look if Rubin manages to get rid make some solid moves to make the team better, I'm all for it but he has shown no track record of doing so without over spending which the Phillies can no longer do with so much money tied up in the three starters, the closer, and Ryan Howard. Those five guys make more than half of the entire rosters in the National League and the Phillies owners have said they do not want to pay the luxury tax.

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from Palmer-Forks Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Bill Barnes June 19, 2013 at 05:59 pm
I was going to inquire about this with Palmer Twp . I've seen lots of folks on bikes, running andRead More walking on paths for weeks now. Summer is here, the paths are a resource for shady recreation in the summertime. Let's go!!!
Ervin Kistler June 16, 2013 at 12:55 pm
To me, part of the problem is the arrogance of some of the players. It seems that they can do asRead More they please, don't be a team player, to try and maintain their stats and forget about the team. I hear the announcers questioning the positioning of the outfielders. Question where are the coaches? Granted the players are supposed to be professionals and know what they should be doing, but even the best need help at times.
Cecilia Fritz June 18, 2013 at 10:19 am
Perhaps if the pay scale changed to an incentive type scale - pay as you win, or pay for a cleanRead More drug test things may change. I am amazed at the salaries these persons are getting and the performance just does not match up.
Intheweeds June 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Unfortunately, Utley has zero trade value since he's in the last year of his contract. You sayRead More "thanks", give him a gold watch and let him sign in the AL as a DH and spot 1B/2B. You aggressively shop Howard to the AL, where he can DH. You eat 3/4ths of his contract to do so. You bring up Ruf to play 1B. You trade Papelbon to a contender. Unless somebody floors you, keep Lee.
Ruin Tomorrow Jr June 8, 2013 at 06:12 pm
the Phillies are a garbage team just like Miami and Milwaukee
Mike Shortall June 10, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Anyone who follows the game and this team KNEW they had to play very, very good fundamental baseballRead More and stay very, very healthy to contend. So far neither has happened consistently enough, though there have been flashes of it for short stretches. I worry more about the injury bug right now because it robs the team of those who - in the recent past - have been more consistent (Utley, Ruiz, even Kratz, not so much Doc). That being said, there's still a lot of baseball left and plenty of time to decide whether to be Buyers or Sellers in July. 8 1/2 games out is not a good sign, but it's still too early to selling guys off. And I definitely wouldn't trade a Domonic Brown at this point regardless. They'll need someone to build around if they do decide to sell off eventually.
Joe Sommers June 11, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Your on Drugs Ruin Tomorrow. Miami is garbage ...The Mets are juts as bad. , The Nationals areRead More right with the Phillies. The entire NL is mediocre. Trade Domonic Brown???? You know nothing !
Ike May 26, 2013 at 01:22 pm
Thanks for the memeriores ... LIKE BOB HOPE WOULD SING..... It was fun...,TIME TO RELOAD,, OR TIMERead More TO TRY ONE LAST BIG MOVE BEFORE THEY ARE ALL GONE....
metsfan May 28, 2013 at 01:03 pm
fire ruben
John May 29, 2013 at 11:20 am
Funny, when the fightins were winning, Phillies medical staff was taking all of the bows. Now thatRead More they can't keep 9 guys on the field, where are is all of the blame? Can't have the good with the bad, just like the Phoenix Suns medical staff. Taking credit for doing your job and being VERY, VERY LUCKY! As the Fightins age, expect more injuries to occur. Maybe it's time to change the medical staff along with the head guy....nice runs boys, but the end needs to come sooner or later, and maybe next time a bit more humility during your success, and less spotlight, so when challenges like this season come along, you aren't the focus of why nobody is getting better.
David Curran May 24, 2013 at 03:28 am
I can't figure out why Norm Snead or Roman Gabriel were not considered. :) All kidding aside, ifRead More Mcnab had better receivers, I think that would have put the Eagles over the top. Reid waited to long to get a top flight receiver.
Here and Now May 27, 2013 at 01:29 am
go phillies
la verdad es una droga May 29, 2013 at 05:58 pm
go phillies.....all the way to .500 ball.....if we're lucky.
KEN MORGAN May 11, 2013 at 01:56 pm
It's a shame that the Philies don't have at least three World Championships under Chump Charlie.Read More With the Talent and Pitching he has had aTony LaRussa, or a Joe Torre caliber Manager .They should of had a mini-dynasty. Why didn't they go for Jim Leland when they had a chance. As a long retired player Charlie does not know how to manage stratigic basball.THEY WILL NEVER WIN PLAYING CHARLIE GOOD OLD BOY BASEBALL. It's time to bring in the Guy in the on-deck circle in NOW.IT'S RYNO TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they go for Jim Leland when they had a chance.
Dino Ciliberti (Editor) May 11, 2013 at 01:57 pm
Tom -- I just read the book "The Rotation," which is all about that year. You should readRead More it. Great stuff.
Tom Kearney May 11, 2013 at 02:18 pm
Thank You, Dino will do! :-)
qatazah May 5, 2013 at 01:24 pm
since chip likes oregan so much why not brang in cliff harris for another shot to if he can make aRead More difference in the secondary?
ben leonard May 5, 2013 at 05:28 pm
Each guy taken in this first Kelly draft serves a purpose, each pick was rated higher than the roundRead More taken Seems each pick has something to prove: I belong here. Blending the free agents Eagles have a perfect set up for hard work, motivation and improvement. I like what Chip has done and look forward to rookie camp next week.
Joe Sommers May 5, 2013 at 06:14 pm
Although I respect Andy Reid... his time in Philly was well passed due. Our suspicions about hisRead More regimes poor drafting skills have been realized in just one draft .Chip Kelly did an outstanding job in the 2013 draft. I bet Howie Rosenman was taking copious notes watching Chip Kelly fill the Eagles needs with precision and stealth..Andy and Howie were the blind leading the blind during recent drafts. Lurie tried hiding the Howie's draft malstrom with his "it wasnt Howies fault speech" but we are smarter than that. I give Lurie credit for hiring Chip Kelly . he is a breath of fresh air.
Tara White May 5, 2013 at 12:14 am
Thats a good question, i i was settle, no one will know, and why because it was hush, hush as usual!
Tara White May 5, 2013 at 12:19 am
You know I have one question, what about the senior citizens that can barely make ends meet, how areRead More they to pay their taxes? I honestly feel that the state should step in, and look at the dirt under the rug so to speak, I bet any amount of money, alot of the employees would resign, and I honestly feel that EASD, should do exactly what Bangor School District is doing, random drug testing! There are some very good teachers that are employed by EASD, and some good employees, but, well all will come to light eventually!
Rasterone May 6, 2013 at 05:10 pm
If a bunch of out of town investors, operators and others in a new housing complex are paying forRead More schools and other local services like fire and police based on an August 28, 1950 agreement that has them paying next to nothing --then seniors as home owners are in big trouble as is every other homeowner in EASD .
Barbara P-K April 29, 2013 at 07:13 pm
Give them a chance...they just swept the Mets. This is only the beginning.
kevin April 29, 2013 at 07:21 pm
4 games back on the best team in the NL with only 136 games to go. Press the panic button!
Joe Sommers April 30, 2013 at 11:39 am
The core of this team won a WS....thats all !They deserve every shot to win another. Here's theRead More lowdown as we come into May. The Braves have come back to the pack ,The Phils are one game behind the vaunted Nationals. What have they ever won Zero ...Nada...NOTHING! Phils starting pitching will be fine. Halladay is close to finidng his new zen. Lee has been good Hamels ALWAY starts slow and has pitched well in his last two starts . Kendrick has been good and so has Pettibone.Bullpen neeeds to improve . Utley and Howard will get close to their historical averages .Phils outfield is coming around offensively.Phils bench has been excellent. CHOOCH is back in the lineup. That will make a huge difference in consistent starting pitching. He calls a great game and knows his pitchers. 162 games is a LOOOOONG season. This team will gel and win 90 games and gain a wild card spot . I'll take any bets on that.Any takers from you naysayers?
Jeff Carlin April 25, 2013 at 07:55 pm
This is the Eagles........expect anything!!
John April 25, 2013 at 09:42 pm
EXACTLY! I feel that this is a tough pick to screw up, and Chip Kelly has to hang his hat on thisRead More one. Likely Joekle since the Chiefs are taking Fisher.
John April 25, 2013 at 09:52 pm
They have to go OLINE. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can be your QB's and they wouldn't surviveRead More behind that Oline.... I'm not a Vick fan, at all, but that Oline play was pretty brutal last year. we can't keep troting King Dunlap out there.
anonymous April 17, 2013 at 04:23 pm
Oh, Wilkens and Wright can stay. They're players that punch the clock.
John April 17, 2013 at 04:52 pm
I'm pretty sure the writer was kidding about bringing AI back. At least I hope so, good lord what aRead More terrible move that would be. Simon, what are you talking about? He said "How am I supposed to make my teammates better by practice?" Yes, he played hard, but he made NO ONE better.
John April 17, 2013 at 04:53 pm
This is a terrible draft, and the sixers will likely have th 12th pick or so. The only saving graceRead More is that they aren't tied to major contracts, which is great. However, the free agency crop isn't that great either. Sure, Chris Paul is great, but he's not leaving LA. We will suck again next year.
KEN MORGAN April 7, 2013 at 12:08 pm
You can't get in the play-offs without playing team Baseball. If you can't move runners and giveRead More yourself up for a Win you never will. Charlie doesn't understand how to play small ball,it's time for him to say good bye. Welcome in Ryan Sanberg who has been a Winner at all Levels.
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr. April 8, 2013 at 02:09 pm
Hang in there...Even the iconic Yankees are scraping bottom...Let's all hope that things getRead More better...No place to go but up...GO PHILS!!!
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr. April 9, 2013 at 11:42 am
Another Phillies loss...The Iron Pigs beat Pawtucket Red Sox (We left the Park when the score wasRead More 5-2, Red Sox!)...If the Pigs can do it, the Big Brothers should be able to do it, too.
GJ April 6, 2013 at 03:15 pm
Why wait for the season to develop? Judge the team based on four games. Don't even bother watchingRead More or following them the rest of the year. After all, most of you have made up your minds.
robert dimascio April 6, 2013 at 06:03 pm
well the start of the season has been a diasapointment the starting pictchng not what it used to beRead More especially holiday, the middle bulpen is terrible. the hitting has improved with brown an revere, michael young does not have that spark that he once had an i like to see delmon young get bac in left field for power
Tom McMenamin April 6, 2013 at 06:13 pm
Robert.....3 main concerns with your statement(s) 1. Spelling is your friend 2. Grammar is yourRead More friend 3.Punctuation is your friend
Joe Sommers March 23, 2013 at 02:11 pm
Analysts and Pundits rank this team at #16 from the 32 MLB teams. GOOD...This team needs to be anRead More underdog. They are #16 because of the perception they wont stay healthy .The biggest concern Halladay. If Halladay doesnt go on extended DL and can pitch 5-6 innings that would be a plus . Kendrick can off set a reduced contribution by Halladay by pitching consistent like he did in the 2nd half of last year. Phillies bullpen needs to prove themselves but make no mistake. This bullpen is light years better than last years slop .Last years group blew 17 games by the All Star break.! The unexpected blossoming of Dom Brown is HUGE. If D. Brown has truly turned the corner the Phillies outfield all of a sudden becomes a strength versus a question mark. Right and Center filed are solid and they can easily platoon left field between Mayberry., Nix and Ruf. The Phillies infield is solid. Howard is 100% and Utley looks rejuvenated and healthy. Young has improved defensively at Third through spring training and is the best pure hitter on the team. Catchers spot is a major strength. Chooch is a top 3 ML catcher who handles the pitching staff well. Kratz is a proven backup with a biig stick and Joseph the Young prospect looks like he will develop into a stud. The bench is solid with Franzen and Galvis. If Charlie uses them frequently he will save the aging infield and keep them healthy for a playoff run. My prediction 90 - 72 and a wild card birth. Maybe another Red October ?
Mike Shortall March 24, 2013 at 02:45 am
They have to be better than last year ... so long as they stay reasonably healthy. One of the weirdRead More twists this year - thanks to realignment between the AL and NL - is a HOME OPENER against Kansas City! Blah ... But can't wait! Our first game in our plan is April 9 vs. the Mutts! Go Phillies!